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The MYTH of the unregistered hit

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  • The MYTH of the unregistered hit

    OK, I've finally had enough... I went off a bit in TS after hearing about what someone did or did not see, so it's time to lay this out.

    Folks, what you see on your screen is NOT exactly what is happening on the server, so F**KING learn to deal with it. I'm tired of hearing "How did you live through that" or "That hit you - I saw it right on my screen" or "theres no way that didn't hit you..."

    The game is NOT being "played" on your computer (UT Client), it's being played on the SERVER. The SERVER decides what happens, NOT your computer. Netcode creates a "client side favoritism" for shots, but the server runs the show.

    There is NO SUCH THING as an "unregistered hit", there is only your UT client making PREDICTIONS based on .5 - 1 sec old data that are going to have a margin of error. Whether you had lag, your UT client made incorrect predictions, some packets just pain got lost, or somebody made fast movements that the sever saw that you didn't get yet, whatever... ...what you saw on your screen was just plain FICTION based on predictive movement error.

    By the time you move, click and fire, your system processes and sends the data to the server, the server receives, process and sends the data out to all other players, another player gets the data and their UT client processes that data, and then shows that you moved, it can be an eternity of hundreds of milliseconds... That is why your client shows you PREDICTIVE movement for the other players, not REAL TIME movement.

    Netcode only helps weapon shots, NOT movement - so movement lag is responsible for most "artifacts" and WRONG predictions that your computer shows you.

    ~ You did not get shot through the wall - They shot you when you were still IN THEIR SIGHTS on their system / on the server.
    ~ It is totally possible for a person move out for your line of fire, "on the server" while they are still "in your sights" on your system.
    ~ Netcode creates a "Fake" weapon fire path on your client at times - so it looks like you hit while the decision is made if you actually hit, or you miss but then you get the kill. In other words, there are times when UT/netcode shows you PURE BULLSHIT on your screen.
    ~ People can possibly see you come out from behind the wall BEFORE you see it on your screen (predictive error in movement speed)
    ~ People can dart out and back and shoot too fast for your client to get the data and you "are shot from nowhere" and you never see them.
    ~ Spawning and Spawn protect don't all happen / ware off at the same time, so yes it is possible that they killed you right at spawning, and that they spawned before you.

    For any coders out there, Netcode consists of 49 classes, with up to 500 lines of code each, where each weapon is coded by itself with multiple classes. There about 8000-9000 lines of code JUST FOR NETCODE. It's not a simple thing. It's going to have issues and flaws.

    (UT99 has a much more comprehensive netcode called GlobalUnreal that has akin to 70,000 lines of code - UT99 is still by far the largest active UT community)

    The end result of all this, is that we are playing a game all hundreds of miles apart on a server in Texas, and some you seem to think YOUR computer is magically in control of it all. IT'S NOT - so GET OVER IT. There will always be predictive errors that manifest as "shot from nowhere", "shock beam shot out the players' @ss", "Head shot as I came around the corner" "Rocket passed right through them" etc... We all see these things, but some of you just can't seem to grasp that your screen is not the UT referee - the server is...

    It's all part of the game...

    As I said above, there is NO SUCH THING as an "unregistered hit"... Your UT client made a bad prediction, and you saw about 500ms of fiction at 90+FPS... (that's about 45 frames of bullshit... if you're from "Big Cow Country")

    So, QUIT YER' BTCHN' AND DEAL WITH IT...

    ...It's totally amazing that the game works as well as it does...

    -Born_2_Pontificate
    1) It's not "Bunny Hopping", it's Red-Neck Dodging...
    2) I don't "SPAM", I use the randomized tactical deployment of munitions...
    3) If you don't like it - to bad, my bunny-hopping-spam will kill you.
  • #2

    good lord...if we have to quit bitching, where's the fun in that?
    I'm not gay........but $20 bucks is $20 bucks!

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    • #3

      Man. I got to sticky this one. Thanks for the breakdown there Mr. Born!

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      • #4

        Some of us that bitch about this understand it perfectly well but still like to bitch about it at times. I myself am one of those people for sure. I don't necessarily mean to say that it should have been something different, I just like to call out when I see shit like that happen. I can try to refrain from doing so in the future if this bothers people.

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        • #5

          ok, disturbing trend happening...people are apologizing for offending...cut that shit out...and to those snowflakes amongst us, reach down...those things dangling, as little use as they get (at least in my house) they are called balls...use em.. .FFS...smmfh
          I'm not gay........but $20 bucks is $20 bucks!

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          • #6

            Ok... This was a bit of a rant, just making the point that what you see on your screen is not exactly what is happening on the server, and just because you didn't see or understand how something happened, doesn't mean someone's cheating.

            I mean, I get "mystery" shot by Destined all the time... That doesn't mean he's cheating, just that he's a back-shooting sneaky camper...
            And then there's Foo... I'd say he's questionable on those "shot coming around the corner" hits, but then I look at his stats, and man, that guy must run out of ammo for every weapon each round; he's shooting with such low hit percents... You talk about holding down the trigger and moving around, or shooting at every possible place a player might be in the next 5 seconds...
            1) It's not "Bunny Hopping", it's Red-Neck Dodging...
            2) I don't "SPAM", I use the randomized tactical deployment of munitions...
            3) If you don't like it - to bad, my bunny-hopping-spam will kill you.

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            • #7

              I know right? Those 44% lg and 80% goo...tragic! LOL
              I'm not gay........but $20 bucks is $20 bucks!

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              • #8

                The best part of the game is when you rocket somebody in the middle of an open area while standing right next to them. You die (or at least get hurt) and they have no scratch on them. I would call that netcode unregister! (doesn't matter what it really is, but your post didn't explain that )

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                • #9

                  Originally posted by Bluduck View Post
                  The best part of the game is when you rocket somebody in the middle of an open area while standing right next to them. You die (or at least get hurt) and they have no scratch on them. I would call that netcode unregister! (doesn't matter what it really is, but your post didn't explain that )
                  I have shielded close rocket shots on many players who attempt a close proximity rocket shot. I rarely get hurt, its kinda like putting your finger in the barrel of a gun in cartoons...

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                  • #10

                    um...i know it's ridiculous...but I worked a case where a drunk redneck blew his hand off trying that very same shit with a buddies snubby .38...natural selection
                    I'm not gay........but $20 bucks is $20 bucks!

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                    • #11

                      Originally posted by Bluduck View Post
                      The best part of the game is when you rocket somebody in the middle of an open area while standing right next to them. You die (or at least get hurt) and they have no scratch on them. I would call that netcode unregister! (doesn't matter what it really is, but your post didn't explain that )
                      Nothing to do with netcode Bluduck. This is a well know issue in UT, and it's BY DESIGN in the game.

                      That was a change from UT99 to UT2004. In UT99 damage from projectile weps carried through even if you died, killed yourself, close or far away. They changed it to appease the whiny little hitscan btchs who couldn't handle being killed after they shot someone. The Damage mitigation was one issue that caused division between ut99 and ut2k4 players. They weakened projectile weps and strengthened hitscan for 2k4. Basically they "dumbed down" 2k4 because as we all know hitscan is a twitch response, not an actual skill, so brainless action for brainless players. Firing flak or rox where you have to mentally predict were opponents will move / land or be in the air .5 to a couple secs later is a legitimate mental skill, while a 4 year old can master hitscan (literally, young kids can do hitscan, but not prediction - they lack the cognitive development), it takes no brain power, just a reflex (which explains hitscanner behavior - they lack cognitive development). Accurate predictive projectiles (not spaming everything, but real prediction) is the only real weapon skill in this game. Using mainly shock and LG is like playing a carnival arcade game, nothing more. *ZERO* real skill, just point and click "kiddie play".

                      *plugs ears* after rolling in the grenade on this one....
                      1) It's not "Bunny Hopping", it's Red-Neck Dodging...
                      2) I don't "SPAM", I use the randomized tactical deployment of munitions...
                      3) If you don't like it - to bad, my bunny-hopping-spam will kill you.

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                      • #12

                        Hey Born. Nice thread. I'm learning a lot

                        I've got a sort of techie question for you that I'm not clear about. I believe you when you say the game is played through the server but when we press "Join" we sometimes start to download all sorts of files, mutators, scripted apps, even the map we play on to our computers. Now, what would happen if someone were to alter a map for cheating on their side (client) and played that same map "name" in the game online. There would actually be two different versions of the "same" map. Can the game UT Client engine/UT Server engine differentiate between a map even if there are subtle changes made to it. (like doing a polygon count check or something). Just thinking...

                        Bob
                        "I tried to think but nuttin' happened."

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                        • #13

                          no cognitive skill huh. I can predict I'm gonna use nothing but rox against you for awhile and see what kind of post you come up with to explain still getting ass raped
                          I'm not gay........but $20 bucks is $20 bucks!

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                          • #14

                            Born, take cover!

                            I must agree that hitting with air goo or air rox takes more skill than shock or lg. I have to think though that the older we get and the more our natural reflexes begin to slow it does take more skill to use hitscan then say someone half your age.

                            Bob, I'll let Born explain this in a technical manner, but the situation you mentioned above would result in a "version mismatch" of that particular file and you would not be able to join the server game.

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                            • #15

                              Originally posted by HTM~FooFoo(Ack!) View Post
                              no cognitive skill huh. I can predict I'm gonna use nothing but rox against you for awhile and see what kind of post you come up with to explain still getting ass raped
                              You act like you NEVER use rockets Foo... but you spam every crack and crevice you come across...must be your raging flaming sexual drive taking over.
                              Wake up and smell the corruption!

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